S1 E10 - Optimizing your Marketing Department and Driving the Growth Culture in an Organization

In this episode of The B2B POD, we will discuss strategies for optimizing the performance of your marketing department and driving a culture of growth within your organization. 

Learn how to set clear goals and objectives, align your team's efforts with the overall goals of the company, and implement effective metrics for measuring success. 

Our guest Ali Raza will delve into the importance of fostering a culture of innovation and experimentation, as well as the role of effective communication and collaboration in driving growth. Listen in to gain valuable insights and actionable steps for anyone looking to boost the performance of their marketing department and drive growth within their organization.

In this Episode: 

• We introduce you to our gracious host Radwa Hassan and our guest Ali Raza
• Ali Raza talks about the key ingredients to fostering a growth culture 
• Our guest talks about the different generations and their behavior in the workplace.
• Radwa and Ali delve into the conversation of establishing a common dialogue between various functions. 
• How a growth culture impacts and benefits marketing 
• Steps to bring your team on board towards fostering growth in a company
• Why organisations need to adopt a growth culture and infinite mindset and how it will benefit them  

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Ali: The idea of becoming a marketer was so foreign to me. What is the one thing that we all align on?

Radwa: I'm a very strong believer of the saying that “culture can eat strategy for breakfast”. I'm not gonna give the names of the X and Y and,

Ali: And I'm being very diplomatic with my response right now. Some people in the other functions may argue with me on that, but marketing in its truest and purest form is really an R&D function.

[00:00:30] I'm not sure if I'm so young anymore.

Intro: Welcome to the B2B Pod by the Pulse of Dubai, with your host, Radwa Hassan, a podcast that touches upon everything that's going on in and around the B2B industry.

Radwa: Hello and welcome to a new episode of the B2B Pod by the pulse of Dubai. I really have the pleasure today to welcome my guest, Ali Raza. He's the CEO and founder of Invicta Agency. Welcome, Ali. Thank you for

[00:01:00] Ali: Thank you.

Radwa: Joining the show.

Ali: Thank you very much, Radwa for having me.

Radwa: Thank you, Ali. Ali is a revenue growth expert and the CEO of Invicta agency.

He consults organizations on building high-growth marketing engines and has driven over 300 million in value to private and public companies around the world. 

[00:01:30] The learnings from his time in marketing and sales roles at companies like Microsoft, Google, Westpac, and LA into founding Invicta and building a team that delivers revenue growth, and innovation for companies in a large post of industries.

That is very impressive. Ali, thank you again for joining the show.

Ali: Two kind Radwa, two kind. Thank you.

Radwa: Thank you. So, we have a very interesting topic today, and it is very interesting to me as well because I say it's key to the growth of organizations and transformation. 

[00:02:00] So we're talking today about the growth culture and where marketing can contribute in organizations to accelerate, and really impact the process of instilling a growth culture, uh, within the teams and the different departments and functions within an organization. So Ali, we talked about in our prep the different concepts that come around the growth culture and the challenges because I see that there are challenges and key tips and approaches to that, uh, culture and bringing it.

[00:02:30] What is your, your, your view and, um, and really where I, I see you have a great value and input here is the definition because it's very important. I, I see if, if, mm-hmm. , if we are trying to bring growth culture, then we need to define it very clearly to the teams and within an organization so that we can bring people more on board to that culture and what's in it.

[00:03:00] Because you can talk So for, for so long about the growth culture to teams, if they don't understand it and believe in what is going to bring to them individually, is that where the gap comes? So, what is your view on that?

Ali: Uh, I feel there are two key ingredients to a growth culture. First is continuous improvement, right?

[00:03:30] I read an article in Harvard Business Review sometime. I forget the name of the author, but, uh, that he speaks about pursuing a growth-driven culture rather than a performance-driven culture. And really the key there is that you pursue continuous improvement. Right. And it's the idea. And, uh, you know, what, we as human beings by design are evolutionary in nature.

It's, it's ingrained into us. And there's something about continuous improvement, continuous progression at a philosophical level, at a scientific level, at a business level that just sits. 

[00:04:00] With groups of people. So the first ingredient, I believe is continuous improvement. The second ingredient is the.

The ambitious aspect of it. It's the North Star, it's the vision and growth culture. And I know you, uh, you resonate with a lot of Simon's Next's work as much as I do. 

[00:04:30] I'm a big fan. So yeah, you'd be familiar with the concept of the infinite game or the infinite mindset, right? And. When I first read this book, it really resonated with me in many different ways.

Uh, I'm an individual who's quite aspirational, and goal-driven, and I've always set these markers to measure myself on and measure my teams on, but the whole idea with the infinite mindset was that there is no end game. There is no end goal. You know this is, you get into business. Not to make money to achieve something.

[00:05:00] You're building something and you make money in the process. Yeah. And if you're motivated by financial gain, whether you're a small business or a corporation, that's all well and good. But if you build something and you do it well, you will gain commercial value in any case. So two ingredients, the continuous improvement and the ambition, the vision, having an infinite mindset.

Radwa: Perfect. If we talk about the differences between generations. 

[00:05:30] Um, how far do you see the improvement and the ambitious factor? Or aspects have changed between the now and before. So if we talk about the millennials and the ambition and the drive for improvement and the slightly older generation, I'm not gonna give names of the X and Y.

Yeah. And because we have all different types of generations and the alphas, I'm not gonna touch them now.

[00:06:00] Ali: Yeah.

Radwa: Just like, um, but how do you see that difference in the improvement and the ambition into the work?

Ali: Look, I think it's a natural part of our being that, you know, times will change, behaviors will change how people behave in a manner of work changes how people behave and how they buy changes.

I mean, in any aspect of life, there are changes we have to go through, and sometimes the changes are driven by. Timelines and age, and other times they're driven by geography and interests. I don't think there's anything new about the fact that as a people, we are all different and we come from different experiences.

[00:06:30] I, I believe really, I mean, as leaders especially, what we've gotta acknowledge is the mix of people that we're working with. And as, as part of being a strong leader, it's your responsibility in any case to understand the group that you're dealing with and what motivates you. Right. And I must say, I mean, I'm being very diplomatic with my response right now, but you know, I've, I've worked with people, uh, younger people if we want to call them.

[00:07:00] Uh, I, I'm at that sort of age where you think you're young and then one day you wake up and go, oh shit, wait. I'm not sure if I'm so young anymore. And, uh, I, uh, I've worked with people that are relatively younger than me. Right. And, uh, I, I've taken away that sort. Frame and context from some of these individuals in which I sort of feel like, hey, this, this age group, perhaps just where they are in their point in life or just this age group in general, and it is a common theme.

[00:07:30] They don't have quite the same motivation, right? The, the generation before them came from observing the industrial age. Like we take our parents and grandparents, they come from a time when the industrial age or the norms of the industrial age were how you understood to deal with. You put in, you know, 12 hours a day, seven days a week to provide for the people around you.

Radwa: Yeah.

Ali: But that's changed. Uh, the, you know, the internet's democratized a lot of aspects to life. 

[00:08:00] It's given people access to so many opportunities, and the younger, uh, demographic understands that there's options. And I believe that's really what's changed. Right? Yeah. It's that. They believe and they un not believe.

They understand that there are options, and if you as an organization intend to keep your people engaged, keep them on board, then you need to understand that you have to become the best option possible. 

[00:08:30] You need to ask yourself, how do we become the better option than the next thing about We can't just, uh, rule with an iron in fist anymore.

That's how I've sort of, you know, taken, I know there's conflicting opinions. I, I'm eager to hear what, what your thought. I know you're a little bit more experienced than I am, and you might have seen a few changes in, in, in the corporate space. What have, uh, what have you observed

Radwa: First, I believe that the, uh, growth mindset really doesn't have to do with the age, because I see that there are [00:09:00] younger generations who, or some, a few, of course, some examples from the younger generation.

Really have a fixed mindset rather than a growth mindset and, and vice versa. From the older generation who have this growth mindset, they're always keen on improving their performance. They seek feedback and you see it from, see it from very senior people who are very humble with taking feedback and very keen to see where they can improve. 

[00:09:30] Whereas, and again, I'm repeating with few examples or some examples from younger generations who are just like pushing back and not really keen to hear the feedback and they believe that they have it all Right. Um, so it, for me, it's not an age or a generation thing. It's more of, again, the mindset, uh, where you look at yourself with how you can improve and become a better version of yourself, irrespective of all the KPIs metrics that someone else could put for you. 

[00:10:00] Because you've been in an environment or an organization that really puts KPIs that don't match your ambition. And in that case, you would say it's like, no, this is not where I see myself. Growing and I should be somewhere else. And in organizations it's different and it, and it, and it's measured and controlled by, um, the size of the organization, the vision and the journey of an organization and where it wants to be.

[00:10:30] Some organizations are very successful in the corporate world, are very successful to bring that change because it's a process of change management rather than just. It's a culture. I'm, I'm, I'm a very strong believer of the saying that "culture can eat strategy for breakfast, lunch, and dinner and everything".

You have a good culture, then you can change your strategy, transform you have a bad culture, irrespective of what ambitions you have or strategy. You cannot change it. 

[00:11:00] Starts from the people and the leadership and how you're managing that change, how you create that, what Senate for the people that you work with, and how the leadership tries to show the value that reflects on the organization and on the individuals.

So you bring that interest forward to everyone, and that's the challenge. Not everyone really understands how the process works out and how they can manage it and bring people on on board. So challenges with the coaching, explaining what's growth, uh, mindset is what's, what it looks like and what we are doing right.

[00:11:30] Yeah. And showing that and demonstrating it very clearly makes people really understand what it's, it's like. So defining it and what it means to one organization over the other in our organization, a growth mindset and a growth culture looks like this. 1, 2, 3, 4, and then this is how we're gonna do it. So it's more of an academic approach, but still this is really how you can bring a mass or a larger team on board.

[00:12:00] So, lots of challenges and opportunities. Which brings me to my other question. What are the challenges that you're seeing? On the agency side, and also from your, um, day-to-day with other corporates, um, the challenges with bringing on board, uh, a growth culture and really accelerating it, especially of course for the marketing in, in this context.

[00:12:30] Ali: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I believe all growth is led by marketing and sales. You know, every bit of growth is on the other side of a sale, right? And some people in the other functions may argue with me on that, but as an agency that conducts revenue growth, and innovation for companies. We are involved very deeply in the part of the business where, uh, our role is to further the company, uh, further the company's marketing and sales objectives.

Now, the toughest challenge. 

[00:13:00] In my experience has been bringing a common dialogue amongst different functions. Bringing a, bringing a, a common dialogue between the commercial leadership, the marketing leadership, the sales leadership, and then obviously the constituents that work with them.

Radwa: The storytelling part.

Ali: Yeah, it's, it's, it's the storytelling. It's having a common set of, uh, metrics, KPIs, language that everyone can share. Quite often what you find is you've got marketing with one agenda, sales with another agenda, commercial leadership with another agenda, and lots of competing interests with people that are on the same team.

[00:13:30] It's like, you know, when a, when a football team jumps onto the field, they all have one mission. We need to score that goal. They know which side it's on and. In this instance, what we find is often we're going in and they're all trying to run in different directions. Someone's trying to score a goal here, one's trying to score a goal against them and the other's just sitting by the sidelines.

[00:14:00] So the first challenge, um, the first challenge for us is to really understand. where we need to drive to. Simple as that. And we can come up with a million different metrics, KPIs, objectives and goals. And if we've got every team to, everyone would say a different thing. But the bottom line is you ultimately have one place you should be or want to be going.

Yep. And we need to understand what that means for you individually. So in the marketing context, you're right. You know, how do we then build a trickle down from the main objective and make it make sense to you? That's it.

 [00:14:30] Promotional: This show is brought to you by Logicon, a leading demand generation company, providing solutions and synchronizing all your B2B needs logically.

Radwa: Perfect. And also with, uh, with the, with the changes that are always coming up. Um, The marketing space and with all the technology, the marketing role has changed and evolved in the last few years. 

[00:15:00] I would say 10 years, and it's becoming more of a driver than just an executor of different tactics. So marketing brings insights and really, Control, and I would say a role in the customer experience.

So this is a critical role and growth culture is definitely an accelerator when it comes to this space. And to your point about, uh, uh, I would say sports, not necessarily football. 

[00:15:30] This is also a great example because of lots of leadership and growth mindset and all these nice, uh, statements. Are, are exemplified in sports and in football and how people are competing, but competing as a team.

And yeah. Uh, we have one goal, but there's a lot of orchestration that's happening. And it's live, it's live streaming of this leadership really. Uh, uh,

[00:16:00] Ali: Yeah.

Radwa: And, and how it's definitely so much to learn.

Ali: Yeah.

Radwa: From this, from this. , yeah.

Ali: Sports teams. I mean, uh, you, you don't have to look very far to see examples of this.

Sports teams are a great example. Uh, military teams, some of the most effective units in the world. Jocko Wilin, who's books I've read, I'm not sure if you're familiar with 'em, but an XUS Navy Seal that trained Navy SEAL teams. You read a lot of his accounts and you know, you'll understand what effective teams are.

[00:16:30] The common thread amongst all of them is that they're really, really clear on where they are all going as a group.

Radwa: Very true.

Ali: And you know, to, to your point about the whole, uh, growth ecosystem, especially the revenue growth ecosystem, what I've found is that people are often, they're often, uh, disconnected.

They're not speaking the same language. There's being different language running in different directions, and that's really what holds them back.

[00:17:00] Radwa: Most certainly. Okay. So if we look at, um, marketing and we look. What exactly would a growth culture bring to marketing? So how will marketing, uh, benefit from a growth culture and what it would, where it would take it from where it is right now to where we want it to be?

[00:17:30] And your example of organizations who have succeeded in doing that and, uh, even agency or corporate, corporate.

Ali: Yep. So there, there's, there's one particular business that we did a lot of work with recently that has done exceptionally well, and it's, it was a startup company with a relatively small operation.

And I like, uh, I like talking about these guys because they've, they've come from a true startup environment, adopted the growth mindset, had a mission set out to achieve their goals and achieved all of them. 

[00:18:00] So, Don't wanna jinx them. So fingers crossed they go much further than they have. It's a, it's a group in Australia, uh, called OneClick Life and they're building a FinTech platform to, uh, to simplify life admin for the everyday Australian.

And it's a business that started with, uh, you know, some couple hundred customers. Per month. That's, that was their sort of acquisition rate. And they scaled very quickly to doing about 30,006 months. And just recently, a few weeks ago, they've actually listed on the stock exchange and now they've become a public company.

[00:18:30] So, exceptional journey. Exceptional story. But the, you know, in reflection of the time that we did with them and, uh, the process and journey they've gone through. The, the, the common thread that, uh, that they really held onto that rung through was that they acted in a way where they knew what the North Star was, what was the vision?

[00:19:00] What is our mission? What are the objectives that will help us achieve that? They understood the process of R&D and revenue growth to achieve substantial revenue growth. You have to appreciate that. There's a series of r and d activities you have to conduct marketing in. Its truest and purest form is really an R&D function, right?

Radwa: Yeah.

Ali: And to conduct R&D, you need a framework. You need a process. You need a matter for experimentation. You need to be scientific about it. When you conduct R&D, you have to understand that sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't work. But we just have to collect as many winners as possible and then build on stack and scale the winners.

[00:19:30] So this particular organization's gone through. That process, and I've observed it and I've seen them evolve and grown. They've achieved their, one of their first goals of becoming listed and having a large user base and customer base. And there's no signs of slowing down, but, excuse me. But it's ultimately, it's.

[00:20:00] It's that commitment and belief to wanting to innovate. And I hear sometimes, especially with bread and butter companies or established companies, that, you know, perhaps innovation isn't their goal. And that's probably the worst end of the spectrum. I mean, at the best end of the spectrum, it's, hey, we don't know what to innovate and we, we don't have a process for innovating.

[00:20:30] But often people mistake. The term innovation. If you operate a company and your goal is to move forward, if it is continuous improvement, you have to invest in innovation all the time. There is no other way about it. And you have to innovate functions within your company. If you're not innovating some core product and out to change the world, you still need to innovate the functions within your company.

Right?

Radwa: Yeah.

Ali: And that ultimately in my experience, has been the determining factor in whether I see a function or a team, or a company, or even an individual Excel. 

[00:21:00] Go through a growth trajectory that's the envy of all others around them, as opposed to someone that sort of stays stagnant and you know, continues to do their b a U business as usual.

And that's that, that's ultimately what it comes down to. It's. Committing to the innovation piece.

Radwa: Perfect. And if I say you are, for example, you're a marketing leader or as a COO in your own company and you have two teams, um, one team. 

[00:21:30] Who is really driving through growth mindset and another that has a fixed mindset, what would you do in order to bring everybody on board and how would you handle, you have this fixed mindset team solve, pushing back, and really, uh, which is the case in many organizations.

It, it's either some functions or some individuals who are stuck somewhere and don't see the opportunity. How would you handle a challenge like that?

[00:22:00] Ali: The first thing to acknowledge is, uh, they are ultimately one team, right? So I, I feel the, the first disconnect that's probably taking place is because we're treating them as two teams.

They're one team with some, uh, separated responsibilities. So if they're one team, we have to establish what the goal of that one team is. What is the one thing that we all align on? And that would be the starting point. 

[00:22:30] Yeah. If you, if you expect to, I always say, you know, strategies that most companies go to die in a draw after they've been completed.

Radwa: Yeah.

Ali: They, they. They sit on a bookshelf, whether it's a marketing strategy, sales strategy, or the company strategy, but they're a, they're a great excuse for doing an offsite, pulling all the execs and, uh, related parties into a room and saying, Hey, we are going to do some incredible things. Right? And then you sort of walk away and the strategy goes to hide in a draw for the next couple of years.

[00:23:00] And in order to achieve strategic execution, exceptional strategic execution, you have to provide the utmost clarity to the people that are going to help you execute on that strategy. So if we're dealing with lagging teams, the first point of reflection is in establishing clarity around what the North Star is, what the goal is, what the metric is.

Then the second, uh, second sort of step I would take is creating a strong degree of accountability, strong processes and procedures and rituals for accountability. 

[00:23:30] So if we are looking at the growth marketing function as an example, and we recognize that, uh, sales velocity, uh, pipeline velocity or sales qualified opportunities is really the ultimate goal or expansion into a new market area is the ultimate goal.

Then we have to see what the trickle down of that is into different functions. What metrics is marketing responsible for driving to further that main goal? And that needs to be made visible and apparent to everyone. 

[00:24:00] It should be dashboarded and there should be rituals developed around that. There should be some cadence of accountability in reporting, and what takes place in my experience when you go through that kind of workflow is that you know where you need to go.

You understand what you need to do to get there, and you ensure that there's complete transparency on whether we're moving towards that goal or not. 

[00:24:30] We can talk about all the ways to watch people, track people, micromanage them, and hold accountability in a more sort of dated fashion. But I think we all know how that story goes.

Radwa: Yeah.

Ali: There's very little trust developed in the team and it, it doesn't, you know, it, it, it tends not to take you too far as opposed to when you can drive intrinsic motivation.

Radwa: Yeah.

Ali: So if we want intrinsic motivation, We've got to go through that kind of, um, execution framework and that, that that's, I mean, that's been my previous experience.

[00:25:00] Yeah. Uh, in working with different teams, I think the, the, the trust piece is the most important one.

Radwa: Of course, of course. And, um, it goes back to the leader and how they really make their teams confident in their abilities and how they pass feedback and how this. A constructive feedback that really makes someone go out of a room wanting to change and improve and becomes a better version of themselves for themselves and for the organization.

[00:25:30] And how you can give someone feedback that would just like get them completely demotivated about the whole thing. So it's about also educating the leaders of how they can, they can do that, and that would bring me to. to my last question, and since we have mentioned Simon Sinek, I would say we can do it in the why, what and how.

[00:26:00] If we are talking about the growth culture and the infinite mindset, why organizations really need to adapt that and how. And the what, uh, if it's more of a summary and a wrap up of what we have discussed and the benefit for.

Ali: Sure. As I said, I may be a little bit biased, but to me, all growth is led by marketing and sales, and as an organization, we all get together.

[00:26:30] What is a company? A company's a group of people that get together and set out to achieve something, and the world is made up of things that are created by entrepreneurs and businesses. Everything that you see around you is, it's the product of an entrepreneurial mind. Right. So it makes sense if, if we are to continue as, as a people, as man, as mankind and we want to continue to evolve and progress, then it makes sense for companies and businesses to commit to moving forward.

 [00:27:00] So I, I hope I've, uh, I hope I've answered the why there now.

Radwa: Yeah.

Ali: The how, so, the how, look, I, I, I, in order to, in order to develop a growth culture within a company and achieve that kind of consistent improvement, first of all, in my opinion, what you need is a commitment to continuous improvement. That's the starting point.

[00:27:30] There's. A degree of clarity you need around your mission, your vision, and the objectives. What are we trying to achieve? You need a framework for experimentation. You need to ensure that people often talk about, you know, a, a strong culture is one that, uh, allows failures as much as successes.

Radwa: There you go. Yeah.

Ali: I don't, I, I don't think there's. Argument about that, but we, we wanna minimize the failures, right? So.

[00:28:00] Radwa: Yeah. But then if, if it's something that's tolerated and it's not like we're gonna embrace the , the failure and say, okay, you fail as much as you want. But if we don't allow people the room to make mistakes and learn from their mistakes and really say, that's all, it's all right.

You can do mistake. Um, but let's learn, let's take it as a learning and a learning curve, then. Not yet. 

[00:28:30] You have not succeeded yet, but you're gonna do it. It's not like you're, yeah, you've failed. And, and that's it, because that's the fixed mindset. You failed. That's it.

Ali: Yeah.

Radwa: Uh, nowhere to go. Um, but, um, accepting mistakes.

Ali: Yes.

Radwa: And, um, the takeaways from that is very important and it's a leadership thing. If they don't really. Bring this and into their conversations on how can they push their teams to go make a mistake, learn, and I'm fine. 

[00:29:00] Of course, it's a controlled one and it's not something that's going to endanger any, anyone.

Yeah. But at least to try, because that's where innovation lives.

Ali: Correct. Leaders have a responsibility to understand the innovation process. They, they have a responsibility to understand, we as leaders really need to be the strongest R&D leaders possible. And what I found in my experience, often when you, when you have a leader that struggles with the failure piece, it's because they can't fully understand what it takes to conduct R&D, what it takes to innovate, what, what to do when something doesn't go right.

[00:29:30] Yeah. Uh, the, the idea of prototyping and validating ideas and then stacking the wins. That makes a lot of sense to someone who has an experimentation framework. But if we are purely goal-driven, metrics-driven and we have no sort of leeway or runway for where things go wrong, then that's the, that's the point of friction.

[00:30:00] That's where you start to develop that mindset. So as a leader, really the responsibility lies within gaining the understanding of how you conduct experimentation. Yeah. How you innovate functions and.

Lastly, the what? So there, there's the how, the what we are doing is ultimate, uh, we are, you know, ultimately we are building,

[00:30:30] Hmm, we're we're building initiatives. That's what it is. Uh, my, my comment earlier, my point earlier about building the reason, the fact that we build companies in order to further some ambition, whether at a corporate level or an individual level, what we are doing is ultimately building. Initiatives, building, uh, directions, building emotions towards achieving something.

[00:31:00] And if we can rally the people around us and we can find people that share that ambition to do that thing, then I feel the whole ecosystem comes together. Yeah. That's ultimately the, the cornerstone I think, of any entrepreneurial ambition

Radwa: Hundred percent. Well, that's a very rich episode and a very interesting discussion.

[00:31:30] Um, thank you so much, Ali for your time. Uh, really happy to have you here and I look forward to more episodes with you. Maybe we can pick on the topic of sports and uh, yeah, we can look into the leadership aspects there. So, um, thank you again and, uh, um, have a great day and thank you our, uh, listeners and, uh, stay tuned and please, um, comment, uh, share your thoughts, uh, about this topic and your view, what happy to hear from you.

[00:32:00] Ali: Thank you very much, Radwa. It's been an absolute pleasure. I look forward to where we go from here.

Radwa: Thank you, Ali. Bye.

Closing: Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the B2B Pod by the pulse of Dubai with your host, Radwa Hassan. This show is brought to you by Logicon. 

[00:32:30] If you aren't already, make sure you subscribe to our podcast. Spotify, Google, or Apple Podcasts. If you have any questions or suggestions, you can visit us on the podcast.ae and follow us on social media at the B2B pod.

See you next time.